Repercussions Earth And Heaven Rarlab
(when in doubt ). We Will Re-approve posts/comments if you edit them to remove any inappropriate content and alert us to the changes.A reply to the moderator's comment should suffice. No Hate-Mongering.Any post or comment that argues that an entire religion or cultural group commits actions or holds beliefs that would cause reasonable people to consider violence justified against the group as a whole will be removed.
No Low-Effort Posts.The text of each post must contain an argument for the OP's position in the debate. It seems like jannah is a place where you will have infinite pleasure. Where you lacked sex, exquisite foods and alcohol you will have as much as you want in jannah. Some hadiths and verses in the quran support this such as Surah 47:15 (which describes delicious wine), 76:12-21, 36:55-58 (which says you will receive all that you ask for),. I understand that the whole point of abrahamic religions is to forgo self-satisfaction in this life to obtaining much greater satisfaction in the next.
But what I don't understand (maybe because I'm from a Christian background) is that Allah doesn't actually proclaim that things are haram because they are intrinsically bad unlike the God of the bible. You won't find many (if any at all) verses in the bible promising sexual gratification when in heaven because that in itself is not a noble virtue according to God. This is evident in Colossians 3:1-17 where God says to Put to death 'sexual immorality, impurity, lust evil desires and greed' before 'appearing with him in glory'. The God of the bible clearly indicates what is intrinsically bad in this life will also be intrinsically bad in the next. In fact, in revelations 22, it is described that all that will be provided in terms of material needs and wants is the lifting of any kinds of burdens like thirst and hunger will be destroyed.
While Islam promises hedonism for forgoing consumption and gratification in this life and seems to promise more materialistic rewards for forgoing gratification in the present.Does Allah even really believe that X,Y and Z are intrinsically bad or is islam just a religion that holds no water when it comes to metaethics and simply declares pleasurable things bad in this life because you can get all of that an infinitely more in the next?. Does Allah even really believe that X,Y and Z are intrinsically bad or is islam just a religion that holds no water when it comes to metaethics and simply declares pleasurable things bad in this life because you can get all of that an infinitely more in the next?Ok I assume this is your real question and the giant paragraph is just padding.On Earth if you jump from a certain height you might get hurt.If you jump on the Moon from the same height you will not be harmed.You can see the same action in different places has different out comes. The laws of physics are defined by God. Jumping from that height on Earth is intrinsically harmful to your wellbeing.
God wills for the system of this universe to operate in a certain way and the system in Heaven to operate differently.For example perhaps in Heaven, God would show you a color that cannot exist in this life if thats what you wanted.Or another example given explicitly in our texts is Alcohol that will not harm you.Is heaven seen simply as a place where you can do some things that are haram on earth without repercussions?Not exactly. Heaven is a place you get everything you desired and that which you didn't know you wanted.But if you remove the words 'seen simply as' from your question then the answer is basically yes.
On Earth if you jump from a certain height you might get hurt.- If you jump on the Moon from the same height you will not be harmed.You can see the same action in different places has different out comes. The laws of physics are defined by God.
Jumping from that height on Earth is intrinsically harmful to your wellbeing.This analogy doesn't work because the action of jumping has no moral or ethical value. Drinking alcohol, according to God, is a moral evil.
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But then God decides it's not as soon as you are in heaven. What this implies is that Allah does not assign absolute deontological boundaries and thus, does not even believe in morals in the sense of morals being dichotomous; belonging to either good or evil regardless of circumstance. As soon as good and evil becomes circumstantial, intrinsic goodness and wrongness vanish as they are no longer bound to objectivity. And Allah must know objectivity or why call him God?God wills for the system of this universe to operate in a certain way and the system in Heaven to operate differently.Perhaps, but that doesn't work when it comes to the metaphysics and more specifically the metaethics as I demonstrated above.For example perhaps in Heaven, God would show you a color that cannot exist in this life if thats what you wanted.That doesn't make much sense.
Would God also show you a square circle? Or a triangle with 4 points? Your example here doesn't make much sense.
Colour itself is relative and doesn't really exist. It can only be perceived.Again, If God says it's a moral evil to drink alcohol or consume pork or commit zina but it then becomes o.k to do it heaven, that implies a lack of a strong foundation for moral objectivity as there is no set of rules to judge the goodness or wrongness of actions themselves regardless of circumstance. And this doesn't help islam considering islam is a religion based in deontology; actions themselves being subject to scrutiny rather than the consequences regardless of said action being good or bad in the big picture. But what a deontological position requires is a set of rules that are grounded in objective truth and are not altered based on circumstance. Which islam evidently lacks but other religions like Christianity upholds. Christianity doesn't promise you what you've worked so hard to avoid because what Christians are told to avoid is meant to be avoided both in earth and in heaven. They are intrinsically wrong regardless of circumstance.
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It's all very arbitrary and pointless for islam to have a set of ethics that are only circumstantial because they lack qualitative and objective moral value. This analogy doesn't work because the action of jumping has no moral or ethical value.Well nothing is immoral unless God declares it as such. This is our belief.Drinking alcohol, according to God, is a moral evil.We don't believe anything is a sin except that it is intrinsically harmful.
I can't think of a sin that doesn't lead to some sort of harm. However if you want you can present something haram that you believe has no harm and we can debate it.That doesn't make much sense. Would God also show you a square circle? Or a triangle with 4 points? Your example here doesn't make much sense.Sure why not if you manipulate the number of dimensions you can have a square circle.
Since we can only conceptualize 1,2, and 3D. Think of a pyramid its a triangle with 5 corners in 3D and 3 corners in 2D.Colour itself is relative and doesn't really exist.
It can only be perceived.Right so there are many subatomic particles and energies. If God can create those than surely He can create subatomic particles and energies that do not exist in our reality. If so then God can give you the ability to see that new form of energy and you would see new colors that do not and cannot exist in our reality.intrinsicallyOk maybe I am misunderstanding you. What does this word mean to you? Do you mean intrinsic as in harmful or intrinsic as in immoral. In our faith nothing is immoral unless God tells us that it is. I am arguing from the perspective that everything in Islam that is haram is also harmful.
Well nothing is immoral unless God declares it as such. This is our belief.I understand that but when God does declare something immoral it best stay immoral. I don't think God changes his mind. Sharperbrain program pro.
And if it's circumstantial. Well I already went over this.By intrinsic I mean something that is what it is regardless of circumstance or interpretation. If God declares X immoral then it is instrinically, meaning not being up to debate or perception immoral; naturally immoral.I am arguing from the perspective that everything in Islam that is haram is also harmful.Usery is not harmful. Eating pork is not harmful. Alcohol in moderation is not harmful. Music is not harmful. I can go on.
By intrinsic I mean something that is what it is regardless of circumstance or interpretation. If God declares X immoral then it is instrinically, meaning not being up to debate or perception immoral; naturally immoral.Ok I see. In Islam the only sin inherently immoral is shirk which is to worship other than God or to disbelieve in God. Everything else is circumstantial. In fact Shirk is the only sin that is not forgiven if you die without having repented.Usery is not harmful.A usury based economic model is not sustainable. Never has been never will.
The rich will get richer and the poor will get poorer until the economy eventually collapses.Eating pork is not harmful.Pork fat is worse for your liver than Alcohol.Alcohol in moderation is not harmful.The effect of allowing the sale of alcohol at all is that some people will end up becoming addicted to it.Music is not harmful.If you allow music in your society people will throw parties where drugs will be consumed and harmful behavior will occur as a result of that. In Islam the only sin inherently immoral is shirk which is to worship other than God or to disbelieve in God. Everything else is circumstantial. In fact Shirk is the only sin that is not forgiven if you die without having repented.This doesn't make sense. What God declares haram is by default instrinically and objectively immoral.A usury based economic model is not sustainable. Never has been never will.
The rich will get richer and the poor will get poorer until the economy eventually collapses.Capitalism is one of the greatest developments of human history and it has brought people out of poverty morsoe than kept people in poverty. And this is with usery.Pork fat is worse for your liver than Alcohol.That's an odd comparison. Those 2 things do completely different things to the body. Any kind of animal fat I excess can be bad weather it be bacon or brisket.The effect of allowing the sale of alcohol at all is that some people will end up becoming addicted to it.Nope. Alcoholism isn't a major problem in the West.
And alcohol consumption is very high. You can get addicted to anything that releases endorphins I don't remember a fatwa begin issued against pain medications, coffee or sex.If you allow music in your society people will throw parties where drugs will be consumed and harmful behavior will occur as a result of that.Now I honestly I have no clue what kind of mental gymnastics you had to do to draw this conclusion. This is textbook definition of a slippery slope fallacy.Allah really doesn't have much faith in humanity does he?
Neither do you evidently. We have a surprising amount of agency contrary to what the quran says. I'm not going to get addicted to alcohol simply because I drink It every once and awhile.
Nor will most people. And banning X, Y and Z is not only illiberal but also very unreasonable and unjust simply because some people can't control themselves. You have posted either half of verses or deliberately stretched meanings of verses, thanks for bringing the details though hopefully somebody will learn something from these perversions.God had defined His creation as the religion (Ru'm 30:30) and He has created us for nothing but to worship Him (Dhariyat 51:56), and Iblees had promised promised Him back that he would revert His creation from His intention (Neesa 4:119).What we know as sins are notions against our creation and woudl damage our being. Moreover all sins had been tried to controlled by all administrations throughout the world. You cannot find a single government which is forcing or letting things go freely the occurrence of intoxicants, adultery, gambling, murder and social injustice.The sins are adapted into daily lives thorough series of laws as God's creation is interlinked.
The post that you were linking to had been removed by another mod. You need to find a way to post while refraining form perpetuating hatespeech.Also, your comment above has been removed for the same reason. As an exmuslim myself, I know that 'death for apostasy' is NOT enshrined in the laws of most Muslim majority countries. There are over 50 Muslim majority countries. According to the International Humanist and Ethical Union (2013), there are only 13 countries in which the death penalty for apostasy has been legalized. However, that figure is incorrect and the actual figure is probably closer to 9.